This is a blog in continuum to the previous one, published being relevant for, "Tomorrow's Awakening" !!!
Only the relevant portion of the following interview, is published here.
Hope this will find you worthwhile.
For the detail-exclusive interview please click the link below,
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/exclusive-jaswant-on-pmo-mole/16546-4-single.html
Exclusive: Jaswant on PMO 'mole'
Rajdeep Sardesai CNN-IBNPosted Monday , July 24, 2006 at 23:07 Updated Saturday , August 05, 2006 at 07:40
Rajdeep: Jaswant Singhji, thank you very much for joining us on Face the Nation. Let me first say that the book itself, A Call to Honour, I read it over the weekend, and many congratulations for actually coming out with a book on a very important period in India. Jaswant Singh: I am flattered, Rajdeep. Firstly because you talked to me and invited me to be with you and secondly, because you are among the very few who have actually read the book. And thirdly, thank you for your compliment. Rajdeep: Because, I think not too many Indian politicians or people in public life actually jot down their memoirs. Was this a conscious decision you took, that you wanted the world to know what happened in this crucial period at late ‘90s, near the 21st century? Jaswant Singh: Absolutely. Not just the world, but I think that it is important that the countrymen and women should also together do that. Strobe had earlier said that we should write a book together, but then it disappeared. Because I continued to work in an office and he was out of office and he was impatient. But this is not a rejoinder towards it. Rajdeep: Okay. Let me start then with the controversies. It's a very good book. But it is in a sense being shadowed by controversies from Day One. The big one, the mole in the PMO. The Prime Minister wants you to come up with the name of the person who you believe, as per the book, was a mole in the PMO during the Narasimha Rao regime leaking nuclear secrets to the US. Come up with the name. Jaswant Singh: I am a bit disappointed and I intend to hold a press conference tomorrow (Tuesday). I am a bit disappointed with the phraseology that the honourable Prime Minister has chosen to use, challenging the decency. I am not actually given to indecent exposure and he doesn’t have to challenge me. I will seek a time with him and go and give him the document that I have, but I will not make public the names, because it has a national purpose behind it. Rajdeep: But why did you conceal information for 10 years? That does not come out in this book very clearly. I know you wanted to establish a theory that the United States was very closely looking at India's nuclear programme. But don't you think it was your bounden duty to not go to the Prime Minister now but to go to the prime minister when you came to know about it in 1995? Jaswant Singh: No, not in ‘95, because we were not in office at that time. Rajdeep: But the letter was given to you in that period. Jaswant Singh: That’s right. But that was a period of rather grave political uncertainty in the country, right until the elections in ’98. And I didn’t wish to indulge in what would appear even in retrospect, even marginally, a politics of vendetta. Rajdeep: But you don't think it was your duty as a nationalist that it was a serious enough plan, a spy in the PMO, you were in the government then. Shouldn’t you have asked the intelligence agencies to investigate this? Jaswant Singh: No. The people concerned were out of India and out of office and it was no longer relevant. And in any case, the NDA Government had done what it had set out to do, which was to conduct the nuclear tests and which was the principal purpose behind this person’s writing. Rajdeep: You don't think today this claim should be investigated? Or do you believe simply it's something of the past and it's only a lesson for the future and nothing more? Jaswant Singh: I don’t think we need to keep on digging yesterday’s graves. We need to recognise that this is the given reality of the diplomatic conduct of all countries. We also need to accept that we will be scrutinised and looked into. For example, the Mitrokhin papers, they are a reality. Rajdeep: But you are going to give the prime minister the name of the person in confidence? Jaswant Singh: I will give him all that I have without any change and I will tell him why I chose not to share all this because I didn’t see any rationale purpose being served. Rajdeep: You didn't see any national purpose being served? Jaswant Singh: No, no national purpose. Rajdeep: But in the book itself, you thought it was important to reveal? Jaswant Singh: There are two aspects that I thought it needs to be emphasised. First, that the United States was wrong to charge India. In fact, Madeline in one of the conversations said that ‘Jaswant you are a liar’. We did not lie and we did not hide the programme, and for the United States to say that ‘No, your programme was hidden’ is wrong. Also, so far as the current nuclear agreement or negotiations are going on, there is relevance, that is why. Rajdeep: Are you, therefore, trying to suggest that even today India's nuclear programme is being watched at, is being spied on by the US? You believe that the spies are still operative? To that extent, it was important. Jaswant Singh: It was being watched, certainly. Rajdeep: And even today, it's being spied upon? Even today, at the highest level in the government, there are...? Jaswant Singh: I can’t say that because I am not in the government. But I would be surprised if at the highest levels, India’s programmes are not being looked at very closely. Why is it that there has been an incident recently of somebody from the US embassy being asked to go. Rajdeep: So that's why the information you had is important. It is why it should have come out. Jaswant Singh: No, I have old information. Rajdeep: You don't think so? Jaswant Singh: If the government takes seriously what I am saying, then certainly I would not be charged with indecency and lacking in courage. It is not so like this at all, my dear Rajdeep. We need to take these entire thing seriously and with maturity. Rajdeep: You don't think you compromised national security? Jaswant Singh: Not at all. Not at all. Rajdeep: No question of having compromised the national security? For 10 years, you didn't reveal the name of a person who was a spy in the PMO? Jaswant Singh: Not for a moment. And we need to deal with such challenges firmly................... ................................................................................................................................... ............................... Rajdeep: Again on Kargil, you devote some time, a considerable time in the book to it. You almost seem to support what Gen Mallik, the then Army Chief, seem to suggest that there was an intelligence failure. You talk about your meetings with the vice-chief, where he gave you the impression that the intrusion was by terrorists and irregulars and not by Pakistani army men. Jaswant: I don’t have to suggest. The facts speak for themselves. Rajdeep: It was an intelligence failure? Jaswant: Of course. The Kargil Review Committee says that. I don’t have to say it. We appointed the Kargil Review Committee. Rajdeep: Again, who do you hold responsible? Jaswant Singh: I hold responsible the totality of the circumstances. Every assault, attack, initiative, design of this nature, shall always be accompanied by some kind of an intelligence mishap. And intelligence, you must understand Rajdeep, in governance it is always late. It’s never specific and it happens to every country. Rajdeep: Therefore, when you look back on Kargil, do you feel there was a great betrayal? Jaswant Singh: By Pakistan, of course. Rajdeep: You, therefore, believe that the man responsible, and you are very clear in your book about it, Gen Musharraf's role. He is the person India is dealing with. You believe we have no choice but to deal with him. Jaswant Singh: But if we have to because he acted, I think, mistakenly. Pakistan has paid a price. I think perhaps undeservedly the then prime minister has paid a price. India has to keep moving and we cannot remain trapped................................................. Other question was on the Parliament attack. You say you were not in favour of a retaliatory action on Pakistan even after the Parliament attack. It was coercive diplomacy all the way? Jaswant Singh: That’s true. That’s my view. Rajdeep: But interestingly, there is a line where you say you almost expected that attack to happen because when the attack took place in Parliament, you said as per the book,"I thought to myself so it's finally happening." You actually believed that there would be a terror attack on Parliament? Jaswant Singh: Yes. I’ll tell you why. Because earlier, in October 1, an attack had taken place on the Jammu & Kashmir State Assembly. That had informed me that now possibly the targets are going to be the legislature. And it was more of an instinct than an assessment of intelligence. And the instinct had said, “Look Jaswant, there will be some occurrence in Parliament, we are an open society, and this is what will happen.” I didn’t know what will happen. But something will happen. Rajdeep: And even today, when you see the Mumbai blasts, it's in a sense a continuum, isn't it? You subscribe to the theory, as you go towards the end of the book, where you look ahead, that we are a soft state that is unable at the moment to deal with terror. Jaswant Singh: I don’t say we are a soft state. I wouldn’t go into these easy and rather convenient phrases, which acquire a life of that. India is India. It is neither soft nor hard. It’s India. And we must stay with that. And I also say how deeply troubling it is to see the militarisation of the United States of America. I also say, this is not the path for India to follow. Rajdeep: You actually emerge as a critique of the USA in the book, to some extent when the general perception was that Jaswant Singh is very close to Washington. That's one of the revelations that emerges out of the book. Jaswant Singh: Well, I don’t know what to do with perceptions. Actually, I am not much given to presenting myself to the media and explaining myself. ............................ .................................................................... Rajdeep: Let me, therefore, rephrase it. Maybe you are the right politician in the wrong system. Because very few politicians in the first place would have written a book like this. Jaswant Singh: There is one aspect of this with which I feel somewhat hesitant to unqualifiedly agree is the word ‘politician,’ because the connotations of the word today are pejorative. And you use it in a pejorative sense, I think it is a calling. Rajdeep: So to that extent when you say it's A Call to Honour, is this book about a Jaswant Singh who is optimistic about India or someone who senses that India is really a nation in the crossroads, wrestling with several dilemmas -- international and domestic. Jaswant Singh: The book is an attempt to analyse a journey since 1947. It is an analysis of where we are standing today. How did we or what did we achieve or failed to is in the book, it's a chapter on India. It does suggest that what we face today are challenges. We have to stand up and address. Rajdeep: Jaswant Singh, thank you very much for joining us. Jaswant Singh: Thank you, very much.
